How to gain dominance
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10-08-2007 11:28 AM
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littlemsss


- Joined on 11-20-2006
- MICHIGAN
- Foal
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Hi ,I have a 7 year old quarter horse. today when I put hay out in the pasture he was chasing me and waving his head. I yelled at him and waved my hands,is this the right thing to do? This is the first time he has done this. What should I do?
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povertybyhorse


- Joined on 07-14-2007
- Indiana
- Under Saddle
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Re: How to gain dominance
There are four horses at the small private barn I'm at, one who's owner was not feeding him despite the fact that there is no good grazing (the BO let the local Polo Club park their 5 horses on the 4 acres for two months) and he was very thin. When I started my horses there, this horse would get very pushy at haying time, when I would put out twice as many piles as there were horses, but he really wanted that hay and RIGHT NOW! lol
I started taking a dressage whip or longe whip out with me and after a few whaps he straightened right up. Now he's allowed a bite of hay as I come out the barn door, then he has to wait for that first pile to go down, and he just follows me like a puppy, waiting.
It's not so much about dominance, IMHO, as it is about respect. Like a kid, it sounds like your guy's testing his boundaries to see how much respect you deserve. It shouldn't be hard to show him.
But he will find other ways to test again, just like a kid.
I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confines themselves to facts. - Mark Twain
The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot. - Mark Twain
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Roman


- Joined on 09-13-2006
- Kansas
- Competitor
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Re: How to gain dominance
My husband's gelding, Comet, is definitely the head honcho of our little herd. He is by far the largest, and the others show him absolute respect in all things. And although he is a perfect gentleman at all other times, Comet used to have the bad (and potentially dangerous) habit of trying to bully me when I entered their paddock at feeding time. He would swing his head, 'talk' loudly and occasionally swing his rear toward me while he waited at his feeder. Now, he has never kicked, bitten, etc but I knew this was clearly a threat of 'hurry up and feed me . . . or else!'. I also took to carrying a dressage whip when I fed, and wasn't shy about administering a restrained but decisive THWACK anytime that rear swung around. As for the head swinging and talking, I made him wait to eat until he was standing quietly at his feeder . . . that took A LOT of patience, LOL. Now when I walk through the gate at feeding time, Comet walks beside me respectfully . . . . although he still grumbles quietly and occasionally gives his head a tiny shake just keep his rebel image safe. 
 "When they lay me down to rest, put my spurs and rope upon my chest. Get my friends to carry me and then go turn my horses free."
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littlemsss


- Joined on 11-20-2006
- MICHIGAN
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
Thank you for your help the whip is a great idea!
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pygmysong


- Joined on 11-10-2005
- Northern, MN
- Grand Champion
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Re: How to gain dominance
At the place I board my gelding at, there is a 3 year old Morgan who is very disrespectful; mainly because most people including his owner allow him to be. When feeding time comes, he will literaly shove his rear end at you and try to back you into dropping the hay 'right now'. Or he will simply try to charge ya. (I keep telling him that's why the other horses never want to eat with him, too...Lol!!! ) Anyway...When I feed, I make sure to drop the hay outside the fence, and go in, and get him to back off a bit, using a dressage whip (if I have to), my voice, and my body language; Then, I haul some of the hay under the fence, and proceed to pitch it somewhere near me. I have the whip in case he tries to charge the hay or me, but usually don't have to use it much any more, atleast I don't, anyway...course when I've been gone...Lol...he has to 'relearn' my way again!! When I get the hay in I have him walk up, and pet him, give him a treat, or a quick brushing, then let him have the hay; then I go and get the rest of the hay.
Lesson From Your Horse: When you' re tense, let me teach you that there are lions in the woods, and we need to leave. NOW!! 
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Re: How to gain dominance
Echo carrying a stick or a lunge whip or even just a leadrope.
If you watch horses in the field together if they 'want' something (food, water, attention from another horse) they basically have to negotiate "fear of a more dominant horse" versus "desire for object". The dominant horse will generate as much fear/respect as is necessary to over come the submissive horse's 'desire'.
A good example the other day was when I took my pony's feed out to the field. I fed her outside the field then put her back in with her friends who were all looking longingly over the fence at her feed bucket. When I put her back in, I lent over the fence and offered one of her pony friends (Teazle) the opportunity to lick any last bits of flavour out of the empty feed bucket. My pony stomped over and slammed her ears back at Teazle. Teazle (enjoying the bucket) ignored her. My pony upped the stakes and slammed her ears back and made a biting face. Teazle (still enjoying bucket) put her ears back and moved her hindquarters away... but did not leave the feed bucket. My pony went all out for broke and swung her hindquarters towards Teazle, swishing her tail and threatening to kick. At this point, the balance between desire for feed and feer/respect for dominant mare' shifted for Teazle and she backed off hastily. My pony (looking smug) put her head in the feed bucket to get the last bit of flavour out.
It was interesting for me to see this little interaction. My pony is boss mare and she uses threats backed up with violence if necessary to keep her herd in check. They don't hate her, they are not afraid of her, they follow her everywhere.
So if you try to immitate this when you interact with your horses, you will get the same respect. this why I would always start (with a rude horse) by taking an agressive step forward. If this didn't work, I'd go for the waving/clapping hands and possibly a warning growl... most horses respond to this but if you get a really dominant one, that is when you need to use a stick but I wouldn't whack the horse right off, I would 'swish' it first (I see this as the human equivalent of swinging my hindquarters and swishing my tail - a visual 'BACK OFF NOW or I'm gonna get rough'). If that didn't work THEN I would make physical contact with the horse.
In the herd, once a horse has had to create that level of drama (contact) to achieve dominance, they would be pretty strict with the offender and for a while that horse would be kept at very arms length. so I would do the same. If a horse had been 'rude' enough to me to warrant a smack, I would not let them ANYWHERE near me (using the stick to make this clear). I would really insist that they backed off from me and the food and basically gave up trying to barge in and wandered off to graze or stood on the outskirts looking miserable until I allowed them back in to share the hay/feed. You might feel cruel but this is how horses treat each other in the wild and they actually feel safer if you set these same sorts of boundaries.
JMO
 They've put a man on the moon, but they still can't design a package for likits that you can open in less than 1/2hour
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Solaris


- Joined on 07-03-2006
- Durham, NC
- Forum Hall of Fame
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Re: How to gain dominance
Ditto on Jenny's explanation of a multi-step escalation of threats. If a warning growl doesn't cut it, be prepared to squeal and kick! Yes, I actually did squeal and kick at a mare one time when she was crowding me and driving me NUTS. LOL -- she stopped dead in her track and stared at me in shock like "oh crap, she knows the code!" Baa ramm ewe, baaa ramm ewe!!!
 Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
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kirstygirl69


- Joined on 01-31-2007
- Kalgoorlie Australia
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
my horse used to paw the ground, rush towards me and push at me to get his hay. So one day i stood just out of his reach and told him to back while putting pressure on his chest with the whip. He now waits patiently and when i get near him, he walks out, turns in a circle and stand patiently for his hay.
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lazy-daze-paint


- Joined on 12-12-2007
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
I have had to deal with many horses that have domanance issues. The best thing to do is act like your not afraid of them. Often times people that have the most issues with dommanant horses are ones that are fearfull. So I always tell them to act like that big mocho stallion that is not going tolet these other little horseys boss them around. If he runs up behind you disrespectfully kick him in the chest. It sounds mean but what do other horses do when another horse runs up behind him. Another good exercise to do is to but a flake of hay in the middle of the pasture and claim it as yours if him or any other horses tries to eat it. Stomp your feet get angry and charge at them. Like "HOw dare you eat my food! Thats mine"! Really get after them, even if they arn't 'necessarily' getting at the food, you are eating YOUR hay and they are not to come to close while YOUR eating. And don't just charge them 'till they move away, chase them to the whole other side of the pasture. If you feel insecure or that one of the horses may challenge you then you can carry a crop or whip, but try to use mostly horse body language. You may have to refresh a stubborn horses memory every once in a while but most horses will not try to grab hay out of you hand again. They will instead wait 'till you put it down and make sure that they are allowed to take it and that you didn't put it there for yourself to eat. lze-dz
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Viljoen


- Joined on 01-01-2008
- Texas
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
You cannot let your horse get away with anything. Now with him exhibiting aggressive/dominate actions, now more than ever you need to consistently reward/correct good and bad behaviors. Because of how horses think, it would be a good idea to do join-up with him, and work on giving to pressure. I would be careful using a whip, though, unless you can use it at the precise time it's called for. Jenny has it right, you need to be the 'head horse', and everything should be fine.
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sgcowgirl92


- Joined on 12-23-2007
- central PA
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
look into the clinton anderson ground work series. it's all about gaining respect. you can get it on e bay or something way cheaper than you can from the clinton anderson people, but you still ought to get the stick&string, halter, and rope. and remember, just like clinton says, one good whack is better than a million little taps
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bellamajor


- Joined on 01-14-2008
- Foal
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Re: How to gain dominance
The horse that I ride for my Saturday lessons, Major (the one for my avatar), likes to bump me with his head after I dismount. He has even done it once when we were standing for a while because we were waiting our turn for the mounting block. Is this dominance?
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flearosie


- Joined on 02-23-2008
- Foal
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Re: Hoffw to gain dominance
Hi there, I have just purchased a three month old QH filly whom was totally unhandled until transported to our home.We have purchased her dam also and she is a dream to be around.Our problem is that we are trying to get to stop the filly from her aggressive ears back attitude to ourselves.She will follow you around the yard with no harm and will let you brush her occasionally when she is standing next to mum.However, she will bite with ears flat back for no apparent reason.She will normally greet us with ears back and has twice now reared and tried to strike out.We have put mum and filly into a small yard so we can handle her enough to worm,place halter on for catching etc.After two weeks we have seen progression as she is certainly more confident around us,but cannot stop the ears back,biting bit.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.We do not handle her when mum is feeding etc. I would definately like to put a halter on her whenever necessary and to do this she must be calm and respectful of us,not intimidating us that she will bite etc.
This is my first post,so pls bear with me if in the incorrect section. Did try another one but didnt get a reply so presumed was wrong area. Thanks Folks
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povertybyhorse


- Joined on 07-14-2007
- Indiana
- Under Saddle
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Re: Hoffw to gain dominance
This is just a first step that I have observed with my horse vet's young'uns. Put a properly fitted weanling halter on her and leave it on - it gives you the handle to grab and exert some control, and research has shown that haltered horses are more docile than those without. Also, this may be controversial, although it is not abuse - put a short (2-3 feet) length of lead rope on the halter and leave it. It gets the baby used to the pressure of leading and standing and the knowledge that she's the one with the ability to release the pressure. This does depend on a paddock/pasture that is free of potential snags that she could hang up on. Continue to handle her as often as possible. For leading and control, put a long lead around her hind legs. She's old enough to be separated from her mother for short periods so she can't use mom as an excuse for bad behavior or to hide behind. When she's misbehavin' give a quick firm tug downward on the leadline; reward her when she quits with some scratching and a "good girl". Find a book like "Bringing Up Baby".
I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confines themselves to facts. - Mark Twain
The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot. - Mark Twain
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