FIRST sorry for hijacking!!!  the thing is he does have a nice canter, a bit fast but i'm not worried about too fast. I've had a 3/4 tb for 11 yrs and he did not have a canter only a walk trot and hand gallop, took 2 yrs to get a canter. most horses i've had/ridden have been the "help where's the brakes" kind, my old trainer used to put me on all the too fast ones since i liked the speed demons. hehehe (foolish)    I  so WISH all I had to do was half-halts etc, too fast I could deal with, but NO he does not want to run at all.  he's got a very nice canter he brings his hind end up nicely under him, but it's "I DONT WANT TO CANTER-I WANT TO WALK"  he resents being made to trot or canter. I know this just sounds weird but there you have it??!!    i've thought is he off/tender footed/sore/etc etc cant find anything. i'd thought to work in the round pen and ask for the canter and have a ground person "assist" with a lunge whip to encourage the canter, it's all just backwards and everything i read is all about too fast--i need about not wanting to run??! i've been using the jumps as a encouragement to get him to move out into the canter w/o smacking him or really kicking cause i dont want to just "smack" him. i was (?) trying to show him that he doesnt' have to run all over and doesnt have to "only" run by doing a lot of transistions back to the walk. he does not even try to take off when everyone else is cantering around the arena.

Thanks for the info, the more info the better !

I honestly didn't know that these horses had that many chemicals in them and that they have to detox afterwrds. Whoa, this is heavy..

 Simonsays: How is his canter when he's lunged? Or does he act this way when you're riding him?

when he's lunged (really it's round penned)  he brings his hind end up under himself, i have not seen him cross firing at all, smooth and not really fast, i have 12ft panels and he does just a bit over one stride a panel, since he's 16.2 i figured that's not bad at all.  he brings his head up a bit but not even enough for a martingale. and when i ride him the canter feels great, very fluid, smooth, he doesnt feel strung out. first time i saw him trot & canter i went geez dressage!!!  he's not any faster at the canter than my 3/4 tb. i just go t done penning him,,,he was such a good kid, he walks, trots, halts alongside me w/o halter/lead rope. pivots away front & back. dont even have to touch him. it doesn't take too much to get the canter in the pen, but he gives me that attitude when i'm riding, if i "bully" him then he canters, but maybe he just doesnt want to run???

Akhal-teke:  Just as an example - when I was down at Ky Horse Park for Rolex, I moseyed over (with an appt) and tried out a few of TB Ret. Foundation's OTTBs.  They had a beautiful 4 yo mare in her stall, just off the track; she looked like a junkie needing a fix - sweating, twitching, shaking - it was ugly!!!  I had no idea at the time what they did either.  That was an eye opener for me.  I can't wach racing any more...

akhal-teke:

Thanks for the info, the more info the better !

I honestly didn't know that these horses had that many chemicals in them and that they have to detox afterwrds. Whoa, this is heavy..

Ummm....

 This is not a fair representation of thoroughbred racing at all. It is a generalized stereotype.

 Is there doping and drugs used in racing? of course. There are also vet and medical checks done on the horses to identify specific drugs that can result in race results being overturned, and trainer/owners facing sanctions and outright bans. Billions of dollars are bet world wide on horse racing, and the gaming commissions have a vested interest in maintaing public confidence in the betting/parimutual system.

 There will always be unscrupulous individuals in any discipline,and at all all levels that are looking for a competetive advantage. No equine discipline is immune. The tradgedy is that at the lower levels the use is more widespread and indiscriminate, and goes undetected. At the top of the game where millions at are stake there are more controls. Some tracks and state sanctioning bodies are also more restrictive and maintain a better presence at the tracks than others.

Some of the physical and mental observations that are made of OTTB's can, of course, be marked down to "drug" use. However, a lot can be attributed to the change in enviorment, feed and exercise.

 A thoroughbred in racing has a high energy diet. Everything is designed to provide the horse with the fuel they need to train and race. There are no horses outside of the racing industry that are expending the calories a thoroughbred does on a daily basis while in training. Steeplechase horses are probabaly very  similar in energy requirements.

 The horses are stalled when they are not training, or racing. They don't get to "blow off " energy with their pasturemates. Pent up energy is a good thing to have in a race horse. It's a bad thing in most every other discipline. It is manifest in undesirable traits like aggression, and "hot".

A horse in training has a very specific daily/weekly routine that they get accustomed to. In the repetition of the  regularity of their day they are at ease, and more relaxed. Change this routine and they will become uncomfortable, and nervous. Change is not always good in a horses mind, and they require time to learn the new routine and become accustomed to the new enviorment. Our horse used to breeze himself every morning in the pasture. 45 minute sessions of continuous movement that included, breezing, pacing, sprint intervals, warm downs. he did this by himself, alone. Why? This, I believe, was his way of re-establishing a "norm" in his routine to help him cope with the stress of the change in enviorment.

It's too easy to paint with a broad brush the use of drugs, "detoxing", "coming off", "coming down", etc to identify issues, and attribute the lack of forward progress with an OTTB, that slowsdown and inhibits their transition and training. They need to be taken as a whole. Look at the whole horse. They aren't all doped beyond belief.

I apologize if this post appears to be directed at any one post, or member. It is most emphatically not. It is a post to encourage someone look beyond a stereotype. A stereotype that prevents many racehorses from having a second chance as an OTTB.

I have no intention of depicting the OTTB as a horse that should be avoided; quite the opposite.  I think that after the  immediate issues that occur after their race career is over are addressed, they are absolutely the best breed of horse in the world.  I am simply advising that they will have to have down time (some of which IS due to the way they are fed and handled and the steroids that ARE used) and retraining to adapt to a new way of thinking and life.  I have had four OTTBs and while each horse has a different personality, they have without exception, been kind, intellligent, forward, athletic, willing and eager to learn; they form an incredibly tight bond with "their" human, and tend to be happiest with one owner.  I have owned other breeds and for me there is no comparison.

I was trying to limit my opinions of the racing industry, but at this point, to heck with that!  I will still try to limit myself to specifics that really concern me and put me off the entire business.

The entire racing/gambling industry (and the fact that the use of these incredible creatures is called an INDUSTRY really says it all) has a huge $$$ commitment in these animals and wants to see the return as quickly as possible.  That is why 18 mo colts and fillies are "backed" and run to see whether they have potential.  They are raced as 2 y/os, an age where most of the people on this forum get quite uptight about a horse even starting training.  The Kentucky Derby/Triple Crown is for 3 y/os, horses still too young to be pushed as hard as they are, considering the immaturity of their joints, bones, and muscles.  They are fed a diet that meets their energy needs and promotes more rapid growth at an early age.  This is also why steroids are used.  The best horses run at the best tracks, make money - although few make the return on the investment - and hopefully are retired as studs or broodmares. Although there again there some "interesting issues". 

The vast majority of horses run at not so great tracks and may very well be run into the ground in an attempt to get some return on the dollar. One of my guys (7 yo when he was rescued) was sold to a trader at 6, with the knowledge that he had a serious hind suspensory injury that needed time off to heal before taking up a new career.  He was supposed to be going "to a girl who wanted a low level jumper"; Right!  He turned up at a track in Kentucky the next year, still racing under the previous owner's papers (very interesting!) and with the same trainer that the owners had fired the year before.  When I got him, the suspensory was completely blown, he had a severely fractured hind sesamoid, and his ankles looked like someone had taken a hammer to them.  I was told by several rescue vets that he should probably be put down, but when we took him the good folks at Purdue, they said as long as he was able to bear weight and seemed not to be in pain he would be ok as a pastur ornament.  He is 10 now.  He is the biggest 17+ hh baby you've ever seen, kind and sweet, wanting lots of attention and love from people and horses, loving and careful to the younger DGC, who ride him bareback on a lead line.  Anybody who thinks his story is an exception is living in denial.  I have three others I can tell you about.

It is absolutely true that the major change in lifestyle has alot to do with the immediate needs and attitude of a TB coming off the track.  It is also true that many of them, especially the younger ones, will need time off to clear their systems of LEGAL substances that are used, not necessarily to make them run faster, but to mature them faster.  Once this happens, there is no better horse breed in the world.

If being disgusted by the whole sham makes me some sort of bleeding heart wacko... well here I am... but the truth is certainly not as pretty as many would like to paint it.

We buy and retrain OTTB's for eventing professionally, usually more than 10 or so a year, and resell them.  Several of the posts have very good suggestions.  Here's some additional observations:

 1.  There's something like 36,000 new TB's in the industry each year.  Be very selective in the one that you choose, there's always more available.

2.  The horse must be sound, unless you're willing to fall in love with him only to find out he's a pasture ornament.  Most of the horses coming off the track WILL NOT BE SOUND; it's the same with every athlete.  I still have ankle, knee, and shoulder problems from my football career.  I'd never pass a trotup with an FEI steward, but I am "serviceable."

3.  The horse must be sane.  There's plenty of horses, don't buy the idiots.  Some of them may detox, calm down, etc., but there's a lot of intelligent, trainable thoroughbreds available even under track conditions.  How can you tell?  If you have the contacts at the track (by far the best place to buy, but you have to know/be able to contact the trainers), go see them there.  Watch the groom as they bring the horse out of the stall -- is he scared? VERY careful?  does he pet the horse? does he hit him?  The groom's behavior will tell you all you need to know about the horse's mind.  Unfortunately, if the trainer knew you were coming, the horse's behavior may not be representative, as he's probably tranqued.

4.  Inspect the horse, minutely, especially legs.  We're seeing lots of back problems as well.  We're experienced, see a lot of horses, and usually don't use a vet or do any X-ray work (adds too much cost, cuts into the profit margin).  But we're wrong more than we'd like.  If we have ANY concerns, we get the track vet (cheaper).

5.  Watch the horse go, at least trotting in hand.  I like to seem them work if at all possible.

 6.  Get a pro to help you.  If you're not in the business, you might as well go to Las Vegas.  Or, even better, let the pros find them and then buy one from them -- for more money than on the track, but with a lot more confidence in what you get.

simonssays@home:

Hmm.. since he's OK cantering in the round pen, maybe he's having difficulty carrying the weight of the rider.. Perhaps a weak hind end and back? Do you have a trainer? What does he/she think?

Silkcut:

I definitely do not believe in stereotyping a breed, nor opposed to giving OTTB's a second chance. It is my concern for their welfare that drives me to learn more about them, and hopefully in the future, help them. And I think that everyone that has replied to this topic shares the same concerns. Although I'm sure that there are individuals in the racing industry that act responsibly and in a ethical manner, many do not, so being aware of such practices becomes important in understanding the behavior of these horses. But even practices that aren't illegal - such as the physical and mental stress that these colts and fillies are put under -  has such a damaging effect on them.   

kyderby1973 :

Thank you for the advice regarding the purchase of a TB . I really love the little (but important!) details like using the track vet etc.. BTW - welcome to equisearch!

A-T - KD73 had some great advice for buying from the track; and it's good to hear from someone who does this professionally.

Another avenue that I have found to be very rewarding is adoption... BUT stick with the nationally recognized agencies like Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, CANTER, or New Vocations(These are the ones I'm most familiar with)  They vet the horses they get carefully, and ride and train them (a little);  they will be very upfront about injury and temperament; they will do their best to match you with a horse that fits your personality, skill level, and goals.The first two retain lifetime ownership of the horse - you may not sell him without their approval.  NV maintains ownership for 2 years, after which you may sell w/o their approval as long as it is not back to racing or race breeding.  My Standardbred is from them, a gorgeous, classy 15 y/o OT trotter.  Most mares can be bred for personal or sporthorse babies, but not for racing.  You must fill out an application and be approved; it's a good idea to do that ahead of time, because it can take a couple weeks or more for approval and by then the horse of your dreams that you saw on the website may be gone.  The advantage is that these horses are vetted and evaluated, and if they don't fit you can return them - not having to worry about reselling.  Majic Bandit, my 6y/o auction rescue with 3 yrs of training under his belt when I sent him to NV, lasted 4 days before adoption to a home in Zanesville, OH.  CANTER also provides a listing for trainers to sell from the track or for the owners on their site.

Take a peek at their sites;   they get some amazing horses in and the cost, well, my Doogie was $100.  The ones capable of higher level jobs may run $700. This is at NV.

The more adopted, the more room for others.

Great post kyderby1973. 

My Annapolis, now 28 yrs young, had been off the track a while when I got him and had failed in his "new career" as a hunter.  Funny how an ex-steeplechaser didn't calm down enough for the hunter ring - who woulda thunk it?

I got him with a view to eventing and dressage and we had quite a bit of success at the lower levels (my limit, not his) until EPM hit him. His old bowed tendon gave him some problems along the way and he has suffered two re-bows over the years.  I've had him 19 yrs now and we've been through a lot together.

Poor guy didn't even know grass was edible when I got him, now he spends 24.7 with his head buried in knee high grass - he thinks he died already and went to heaven, I'm sure.

 JaneP, those are good articles.  Thanks for sharing.

povertybyhorse:

Another avenue that I have found to be very rewarding is adoption

Yeah, I'll probably be leaning towards adoption for the reasons you stated - them being upfront with you about the condition of the horse - at least for my first horse anyway. Also I appreciate you sharing your adoption experiences, things like becoming approved, and the matter of ownership..

JayneP - I read your articles - very informative! He didn't know that the green stuff was edible ? Poor baby! But now he has a owner that lets him get it as much as he wants. You and PBH - how lucky your horses are to have loving owners that take such good care of them!

Hello everyone.  I am new to this forum and have just recently purchased an OTTB.  I wanted to share what my experience has been like.  I live in Indianapolis and drove to Cleveland, OH (5 1/2 hrs one way) to look at these horses.

I went to Canter's website for Ohio to the trainer listings.  I found 2 at Thistledown that I wanted to go and see.  I contacted the trainers and set appointments for Sat. Oct. 6.  The first one I saw was very nice but had some old injuries that could possibly cause problems down the road.  The trainer was very up front about injuries, temperment, etc.  She also rehabed OTTB's as well as raced them and she would only sell to a very good home.  I was able to ride him too.  He did great and had brakes although they were a little slow.  The other one I went to see had a bowed tendon and had been on stall rest for 2 mos.  I told both trainers that I wanted to bring someone back with me the following weekend so that I could watch as each horse was ridden.  They both agreed as long as I brought a helmet.  On my way back to the car, a completely different trainer came out of a barn and asked if I was looking at horses.  I said yes and he showed me six or seven of his.  I picked out 2 of his to ride the next weekend as well. 

Went back the next weekend, it was a cool 50 degrees and horses were feeling good.  1st horse, same one I had ridden the previous weekend, felt a little off.  Rode the one with the bowed tendon..just walked up and down the aisle.  It was obvious that it was still hurting him and he had another 4 mos or so of stall rest...not really what I wanted. The third horse was sooooo high strung it took 2 grooms to saddle and bridle him.  Groom held him initially while we walked the barn aisles.  The whole time this horse was jerking try to get away from him, he reared at the end of the aisle.  Ok obviously not the horse for me.  Moving on to the last horse.  I almost didn't ride him because the trainer told me that he would act up just as much as the other one did.  However, I had faith in the groom to hold him.  He was an angel.  The groom walked us 1 lap and turned us loose.  He walked, trotted, stopped and stood still.  All while the other horses in the barn were acting crazy.  I brought him home almost 2 weeks ago.  His name is Fitstoatee and he is a 10 yr gelding by Lil E Tee out of Uptown Show.  He has 15 wins on his race record. 

My experience has been a wonderful one but the 3 trainers I dealt with all cared very much for their horses and wanted to see them get good homes. I'll see if I can't find a way to post a picture of him.

Rhonda