You are right.  And I repeat, if it were my mare, no I would not breed her because of her age but mostly because of the neglect she suffered. She would almost certainly have difficulites with the pregnancy and delivery.  As far as registering goes, it has it good points, all of them you pointed out and then some others.  If you are a breeder with an eye toward selling or competeing you would certainly want a horse that is registered. But there are A LOT of very good mare, stallions and their offspring out there who excel in many area's that are not registered. Generally when people breed thier horses whether registered or not, they are not doing it indiscriminately.  I don't know anybody who does.  Everyone I've encountered on both sides, breed with regards to the animals health and safety first, and with regards to what kind of foal they are breeding for.  It's not just people who breed registered animals that are concerned for the health, safety and positive propogation of a specific breed.  When I bred my first mare, I prepared for well over a year.  I prepared the mare and myself.  I armed myself with all the knowledge at my disposal from books, horse experts and breeders and my veterinarian.  I did not just think 'oh she has overies and a womb, lets make a baby!'  It's as serious as taking on the responsibily of a child of your own.  I looked at many stallions before choosing the one that I though best expressed what I was breeding for. Health, confirmation, stamina, an easy going, willing personality.  I have as a result, one of the best horses I've ever had.  I've had many offers for him.  He's certified with search and rescue (all my horses except my young ones are), he's taught children and adults to ride and care for horses, he'sbeen used for parades and equine demonstrations and he's not registered.  But he's mine. I bred for and waited on his birth, I've trained him and I've ridden him.  Since then we purchased our own stallion (whom we gelded this fall) and we've gotten several wonderful foals from him.  We've been lucky as we've had only healthy, happy foals that are destined for life with my family.  Several of my horses are registered and have very impressive bloodlines.  I have a saddlebred that that is a great grandson of Harlem Globetrotter and has Sulton and Commander bloodlines as well as some other very good ones.  He was a gift to me when he was a two year old.  He's now 9 and has been ridden in parades, trail rides, search and rescue and many others. I guess the world missed out on him because I don't show, never wanted to and don't want to.  We have a registered rose grey arabian mare.  Our stallion is not registered.  He could have been but his mother died in birth.  The condition was not one that is hereditary, it was just one of those things that happen that we can't predict.  Had he been registered, I'd never have had the money to touch him. He is a national show horse.  His sire is one of the finest as was his mother. 

I'm just saying that papers don't make the horse and horses don't make papers.  To many times people think of an unregistered horse as not worth anything.  They are missing out on many incredible horses.  But this isn't about me.  It's about Jane's question. 

Jane asked a simple question and got some very rude unkind responses.  I joined a few years and quit for that very reason.  Nobody knows everything. We come to places like this to learn not be embarrassed. We learn by asking questions and trial and error in anything we do.  She was smart enough and wise enough to ask, yet she recieved some reply's that were at best mean.  I joined again because there were some topics that were of interest to me and I thought would be of help. They probably would have been had not some of the replys been so unkind I didn't care to read the rest.  Instead of being helpful, it's been another rude awakening. 

Well put monster- crossing

Thank you- for your kind words.  I was looking for advise and turned to the board for experience.  Not all were friendly comments. I haven't bred her and probably wont.  I really havent made that decision.  SO many folks here are having trouble feeding what they have.

A few have asked me if I wanted theirs. But I just wanted to thank all that have expressed their advice , kind or unkind I appreciate it.

Thanks

Jane 

What I know about horses could fit on the head of a pin.  I'm wise enough to know that I don't everything.  I can't and won't ever know everything.  I call my vet and horse friends on a weekly basis with something I need to know. But that is the joy of horses and life in general. I learn something new about them every day.  Don't ever be afraid to ask.  Sometimes people will be unkind, but sometimes they won't.  Most of us aren't unkind.  I truly hope you and your beautiful horses have a great future. It sounds like you will.  The decision to breed or not is up to you.  Your vet may tell you in the future that she's safe to breed.  If you do, just the make the best choices you can with the advise and knowledge you have.  I'm sure you will only do what is best for your horses or you wouldn't have asked to begin with!

Jane, It's a shame that you got some seriously unpleasant feedback.  I think you just touched a nerve that's very raw for some folks. 

I think the bottom line is that breeding and foaling are tedious, expensive, and hazardous to both mare and foal.  I've done part of it by buying a distressed, in-foal mare.  It was a "good breeding", as both parents were top-quality horses, and I got a good baby out of the deal.  But the problems for a back-yard horse owner are immense even in a GOOD breeding.  I bought the mare starving, foundered and bred by someone who should have known better.  I couldn't get a response from the former owner when I queried regarding the why's of the breeding, so I'm guessing she was hoping to raise the value on the mare by including a top-quality foal, but even 13 years ago no one wanted a foundered horse.  I got her for $2000.  I took on the expense because I wanted to save the mare and the foal, and I was duly rewarded (My Horses).  But I've seen really bad things come of really bad breedings, and that's why I gelded my mini stallion as soon as I saw the reports on overbreeding coming through the pipeline. 

There are sooooo many needy horses available it seems unreasonable for anyone to breed an animal of questionable parentage.  Remember, you may not intend to sell the baby, but stuff happens.  If something happens to you, what will that baby's future look like?  It's not about registries or snobbishness; it's about avoiding contributing to the problem. 

 All right, can we look at it from a slightly different angle? I have a mare too, and I've been considering breeding her too. She is a registered quarter horse, although not from famous bloodlines. I have her papers. She is 6 years old. Her conformation is fine but not outstanding (biggest problem I'd say is a somewhat straight shoulder, nothing else). I've had her for 3 years and she has never taken an unsound step. She's an easy keeper and has never been sick. She gets along very well with other horses. She's so good-natured that she's been used as a school horse for beginners for almost 2 years. She has a wonderful nonspooky, confidence-building personality and is very easy to handle. She doesn't have outstanding "talent" for anything but can jump up to 3 feet and do training level dressage. She's wonderful on the trails and will go through water, doesn't mind cars or dogs, etc. Her gaits are incredibly smooth. She's lazy about working, but in a way that's good because she's too lazy to misbehave. 

 Because she's lazy, she makes you work a bit to get her light and responsive. If beginners weren't riding her and I were a little more aggressive, I suppose this wouldn't really be an issue. But I have daydreamed about breeding her to a thoroughbred to get an Appendix horse. I've ridden them in the past and think they combine the best features of the QH and the TB. And. . . . the barn where I board her has a registered TB stallion with good conformation and a great personality. When I was working there I'd clean his stall while he was right in it, and he was a perfect gentleman. He throws good foals, too.

If I did breed her, I'd have the use of other horses at the barn while she was in foal. In fact, the owner has offered to trade me the stud fee/foal board for getting Gracie as a permanent school horse. I'm not a professional, but dearly love training young stock and have done so several times, though not all the way with any one horse. The barn owner tells me I'm good at it.

 But I can't afford two horses. So I'm asking myself: Can I actually part with her? She's done SO much to improve my confidence. If I breed for a colt that can do more, will I actually do more with him, or am I fooling myself? What if he's not the perfect horse I predict him to be, but I only find that out 3 years after I've sold her? 

 Whaat would your advice be in this situation? (I've already made my decision, but would like comments before revealing it.)

My Gracie:

But I can't afford two horses. So I'm asking myself: Can I actually part with her? She's done SO much to improve my confidence. If I breed for a colt that can do more, will I actually do more with him, or am I fooling myself? What if he's not the perfect horse I predict him to be, but I only find that out 3 years after I've sold her? 

My Gracie, I think that says it all.  There are LOTS of wonderful horses out there begging for homes, and you've already got one that you love and enjoy.  If you want a different one, I'm sure you can find the Appendix of your dreams.  A baby is a gamble.  Not only might he not be the "dream horse" you're picturing, he might have physical issues that could render him a long-term pasture ornament.  Then what?  Stuff happens.  

I vote no baby.

 I've decided not to breed her. I'm not really an ambitious rider, have never been able to afford to show very much and am not good enough to be really competitive anyway. I'm 60 years old now and having a safe horse is more important than ever to me. I'm going to take this year and try to make her into the horse I want her to be. Putting front shoes on her a couple of weeks ago has already made a difference, and she's starting to make progress in dressage. If after a year I still feel like she's too much of a slug for me, then I'll think about it again. The barn owner is still encouraging me to breed her - but that would be an awesome deal for HER, not so much for me. If I do decide to part with her, I'll be more likely to look for a foal that's already "on the ground" that isn't such an unknown quantity. In this area I haven't seen the big dip on horse prices other people have described, but with the economy the way it is I wouldn't be surprised if it hits us too. I'm a big believer in population control for cats and dogs, so making extra horses doesn't really seem to fit my philosophy!

I got this mare from a local horse dealer with a mediocre reputation, and she's been worth every cent. It's not every horse that will let you put bunny ears on them for Easter, or jingle bells and big red bows at Christmas. (But now you see why I think a replica of her would be so great. But I know what a gamble it would be.)

Who should breed their horse, then? Only professional horse breeders? 

My Gracie:

Who should breed their horse, then? Only professional horse breeders? 

Yes.

Wait, I should qualify.... "professional" being people who know what they are doing and are breeding for the right reasons (with a PURPOSE).  Not simply people who get paid for what they do. :)  Getting paid does not make you a professional. 

BTW, some Appendixes/Warmbloods of your dreams:  http://www.oewequinecenter.com/artbeatfoals.html  #'s 3-8 are going to be for sale.   Sorry I had to throw in a plug for my trainer's babies... they are amazing.  Rizzie's is #5 and she's a doll!

My Gracie, I give you kudos for a rational decision.  I know in my heart you won't regret it.  I'm 60 like you, and I've made a pledge not to take any more animals who will outlive me.  I don't feel it's fair to them or to the people who might be left to deal with them.  I was once in thrall to a barn owner who was an addicted breeder, which is how I wound up buying a bred mare, but I drew the line at risking my beloved QH mare and I'm happy I did that.  I only had 9 years with her, but they were the best years of my riding life.  To have lost even one of those would have been incredibly sad.  No two horses are alike--if nothing else, their personality development is strongly influenced by their life experiences--and boys are significantly different from girls in their worldview. 

 I wish you many, many happy miles on your wonderful mare! 

Omigod, you are too cruel. I don't know whether I want Nick or Ivan or JR! I love blacks. I grew up reading The Black Stallion. But that one jumping up in the air is so cute. Can I have them all?????

Aww I like Ivan and Izzy :)

Jessi