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Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

Last post 09-14-2008 10:05 AM by xxfasterthanuthinkxx. 8 replies.
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  • 03-08-2008 10:23 PM

    Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    Hi and thank you in advance for your help!

    I've been looking on a lot of web sites this evening, even the AQHA website and still haven't found where it says if the Tom Thumb bit is an acceptable/allowable bit for showing an 8 year old horse? I just show locally and most of the shows use the AQHA rules or the ASHA (?) rules.

     Again, thank you for your help!

     Tara :o)

  • 03-08-2008 10:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    Bookmark this site:AQHA handbook

    You care about rule 443c: 

    "References to a bit in western performance classes mean the 

    use of a curb bit that has a solid or broken mouthpiece, has shanks 

    and acts with leverage. All curb bits must be free of mechanical 

    device and should be considered a standard western bit. A descrip- 

    tion of a legal, standard western bit includes: 

    (1) 8 1/2” (215 mm) maximum length shank to be mea- 

    sured as indicated in the diagram on page 137. Shanks may be fixed 

    or loose. 

    (2) Concerning mouthpieces, bars must be round, oval or 

    egg shaped, smooth and unwrapped metal of 5/16” to 3/4” (8 mm 

    to 20 mm) in diameter, measured 1” (25 mm) from the cheek. They 

    may be inlaid, but must be smooth or latex wrapped. Nothing may 

    protrude below the mouthpiece (bar), such as extensions or prongs 

    on solid mouthpieces. The mouthpiece may be two or three pieces..."


    There's a little more to this that I didn't copy, so if you are interested go to the website.

    Since the typical tom thumb has a two piece mouthpiece of average width and shanks less than 8 1/2" long it should be legal, as much as I hate to say it.


  • 03-09-2008 5:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    QHAllAround:
    it should be legal, as much as I hate to say it.

    I saw this comment and it got me wondering....What's so bad about a tom thumb. I ride in what my supplier said was a training bit. It has small shanks w/ a jointed mouthpeice. Is this a tom thumb? My horse works great in it, and she never fusses. If she had given me an inkling or any peice of evidence that she didn't like it, I would move her back down to her snaffle and try a different bit...Anyway, I was just wondering......................

  • 03-10-2008 5:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    I know you are referring to someone elses comment but I had to but in sorry! The Tom Thumb is not the best choice of bits to put it nicely. I never cared for them any way - and one day I came upon this ariticle that confirmed my belief.

    But to each his/her own =;->

     

    http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTomThumb.htm

     

  • 03-10-2008 1:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    Sorry to hijack again, but,.......

     I read that article, and it makes alot of sense and has opened my eyes some. Even though she responds well in it, and it did stop her "stopping problem" I agree with the writer now and don't agree with the way the bit is "used", I guess thats a good term..maybe "works" would be better.

    I started riding her with a snaffle (smooth) at first, , but even her owner agreed that was just too mild. She would listen, but she was hardheaded most of the time, and I couldn't get her stopped at the lope with it.(all other gaits were fine).....So, I moved on to a twisted snaffle, and it had a little more "bite" and she responded better, but her stopping at the lope still lacked finesse.....so then i moved on to the recomended "tom thumb". She responds great in it, but I noticed she does have a little trouble turning at the lope, though we have seen improvement (again, all other gaits fine....).......

    What can anyone reccomend. I'm leaning toward a curb...She's improved alot with her neckreining, but with a curb, can i still direct rein every so often, as a sort of  correction? I'm looking for something in the middle of mild and harsh, enough to get her attention, but not enough to hurt her at every mistep.

    I was looking at some cowhorse bits, as a friend who has her colt at about the same level as my mare uses them on her horses, but on some of them,  I don't see the difference between the tom thumb.....

    http://www.culturedcowboy.com/bits/pages/bit15.html

  • 03-13-2008 6:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    I show in a tom thumb bit which i have not had many problems with it the biggest problem i have had with it is my horse throwing his head. but i have showed in the tom thumb for years and i have broken my paint mare in a tom thumb bit and she is doing great. but yes a tom thumb is legal. my horse is  and he is shown in a tom thumb

  • 03-14-2008 6:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    The link above is what I would point you to.  I'm not sure why I didn't in my original post other than I was at a conference with a crappy internet connection.

    Anyway.  I really do not like the thinking that the purpose of a curb is to have more bite or be more bit than a true snaffle.  Wrong reason to go to a curb and not what they were designed for.  Curbs are designed for use on horses advanced in training so that you can give subtle cues using one hand on the traditional "draped" rein.  They aren't to "shout louder" at an unresponsive horse; though they do work in that capacity when misused as the curb action can and does multiply the force applied by your hands by a huge amount (longer the shanks the more this is).

    If your horse won't respect "whoa" in SOME form of direct pressure bit (traditional snaffle, french link, etc) it is a training issue not a biting issue to be "solved" with a curb, because you aren't really solving the problem by upping the amount of force you can apply; you are masking it.

    Anyway, I digress.  If you are going to show western and your horse is over a certain age (I think it's 5, but check the aqha rule book to be sure) you have to show in a curb.  There are good "transition" curbs and curbs that are good for the inexperienced to intermediate horse.

    I, personally, would look for something with a low to medium port (this is for tongue relief, NOT to apply pressure to the palette) and at least independent side/shank movement if not a break in the mouthpiece to allow that to swivel independently as well.  

    The swiveling shanks will allow some amount of forgiveness when you find yourself needing to correct using two hands (I ONLY direct rein, not neck rein, in a curb bit and do so by moving ONE finger fractions of a cm in the direction I want to go.  Thus, I'd contend there is a difference between direct reining with a curb and "shouting louder" correctional reining where you go back to the two handed and pull their head around or whatever).

    A "jointed" port on the mouthpiece will make the bit more like the jointed mouth he is used to and make the side movement more independent (again, good when you need to correct, but still not the ideal bit for that situation.  If you are correcting often you need to be in a direct pressure bit (no shanks)).

    You can also get bits that do have jointed mouthpieces but aren't tom thumbs, and you might like one of those.

    Examples:
    "cutting/grazing" bit.  No pivots, but a good "mild" curb for the advanced horse (probably wouldn't recommend in your situation, but it's one of my favorites):Grazing Bit

    Hinged port/swivel shanks otherwise similar to the grazing bit above: Myler curb

    Short shanked three piece mouth.  The double joint and the extremely short shanks help address some of the issues with a tom thumb but give you a similar mouthpiece if you don't want to go to a port or your horse has a low palette.  These will cause more tongue pressure which some horses don't like but others are just fine with:Argentine Bit

  • 04-07-2008 4:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    I am currently riding my 8yr old wp mare in a tom thumb and have no problems with this bit. I went with it because my horse has a soft, very responive mouth and I don't belive in using more bit than is nessicary. My horse neckreins just fine in this bit and backs up without any kind of resisstance. Futhermore, when I cue her to lower her head, she does so with out a question. You also must relise that a lot has to do with the material the bit is made of. Mnay of the tom thumbs seem to be made of nickle which in my opinion is a very poor matierial for a bit. My tom thumb is stainless steel and my horse isn't bothered by it. Also, no bit should ever be used to compensate for poor hand and legs or poor training. If horse and/or rider are lacking in these areas, no bit, heavy or light, mild or severe, is going make an improvment.

  • 09-14-2008 10:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Is a Tom Thumb bit acceptable to show a 8 year old horse in?

    hey

    I read the article and everything but i have yet to believe that a tom thumb is bad for my horse at least. I ride him in one at home for training and he responds so well in it, yet I only use it for checking things like if hes not responding to my leg and things and he gets it pretty well. My problem is when i got to show. Since I use all leg when I ride it is important that when my horse is not responding sometimes that i use a good show bit that i can do the littlest of checks and he will be back in order. I bought an Aluminum Smooth Correction Bit by Francois Gauthier recomended by a friend. Once i put that bit in his mouth from the start he absolutly hates it. Everytime i try to "check" with it he tenses up and throws his head and its a total mess. Im just trying to look for a nice show bit i can use for shows that is pretty but hell respond too better. Any advice?

    Thanks


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