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More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

Last post 11-08-2009 7:33 PM by Solaris. 8 replies.
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  • 11-06-2009 8:19 PM

    More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    I know the basics of desensitization training, but does it help with trail riding?  I never minded dealing with my boy's big spooks until today when we almost went into a ditch because of an "evil, rabid monster," otherwise known as a squirrel.  I realized that spooking is a hazard to not just you, but to the horse too.  At 5 years old, I know he'll calm down with age and miles, but are there any helpful little desensitization exercises you all can suggest?  
    Also, I have another little problem that I'm running out of patience for: barn sourness.  Because said horse is used to riding with his barn mates, and has only started going out on his own 3 weeks ago, he doesn't want to leave the barn.  I've been forced to hand walk him all the way to the head of the trail to mount, because he'll just go into reverse at the barn.  I've tried everything from patience to a riding crop, and neither work.  I was okay with hand walking him, but then today I spent 15 minutes fighting with him just to walk away from the barn...any ideas? 

    Thanks! 

    *Edit*

    Toby tried planting again, and I asked him to back.  I backed him the length of the three stalls, then he walked forward just fine.  One issue down!  

    *Edit*

    The planting is gone!  Long story short, we've worked through it, and Toby now trusts me quite a bit more.  Thanks all for the help.  
  • 11-07-2009 3:34 AM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    When my mom was training her colt he got into the habit of backing when he didn't want to do something. It got so bad that he would almost be running backwards and it got kind of dangerous. So after talking to a local guy (who admittedly has somewhat old school views on horses) she put the long lines on him and worked him from the ground, and when he would start to back up to avoid the work she kept him backing and didn't let him stop until he basically sat down. Which was much safer than dealing with it from his back. After only a few times around with this he soon stopped backing to avoid work and hasn't done it since. This obviously won't solve the barn sour issue, but it might be helpful to get him out of this habit of backing which is pretty frustrating to try to deal with.

  • 11-07-2009 6:11 AM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    In general, the best way to cure a barn sour horse, is to make the barn a somewhat unpleasant place to be.  Saddle up and work the horse hard in a safe place near the barn.  Then when he is bug eyed and breathing hard, bring him down to a walk and point him down the trail/road away from the barn.   Pick a point not to far away and ride him to it and back, he must go to that point calmly and at a walk.  If he fusses, bring him back and work him some more until he can calmly go out and come back that distance.  Then when he can do that, take and tie him up and let him stand for a while.  You can take his bridle off and losen the girth.  After he's stood for a while, put the bridle back on, tighten the girth and take him out again.  When he will go your short distance without making a fuss and having to be worked at the barn, take him further away.  Wash, rinse and repeat until he will go without making a fuss. 

    Taking some grain along and giving it to him at the point where you turn back may be helpful.  Also once the barn is in sight, never come back to it at a pace faster than a walk, emergencies excepted.  Also don't untack, put in stall/pasture or feed as soon as you come back.  Let him stand for a few minutes with the girth loosened, untack and let him stand some more before putting him in the stall/pasture.  If it is near feeding time, make him wait a bit for that too.  This way, he doesn't have as much reason to hurry back to the barn.  He's going to have to wait to get untacked, see his stall/pasture, get fed.

    Good luck.

    Spotted Pony

     

  • 11-07-2009 10:13 AM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    Making the horse see the barn as an unpleasant place to be--versus the "fun" trail--is based on the horse thinking as we do. But horses do not think like us, they think in the present, the "right now". They are very smart, but not the way that humans are smart. They don't see the relationship between the "bad" barn and the "fun" trail b/c one doesn't come instantly after the other. That's why correcting a horse for unwanted behavior must be done instantly, or even better, before that particular behavior happens if you're able to see it coming. If you wait to correct the horse--even waiting 5 seconds--you have lost the window in which the correction would be valid. If your timing is off, the horse doesn't know why she's being corrected and views the correction as nothing but an unfair punishment. That creates an angry horse, and you want your horse to see you as a source of safety, not of pain.

    I had a problem similar to yours with my Lusitano filly, who uses backing as a form of protest with anything she doesn't like. I couldn't figure out how to correct the backing tactfully and instantly, as I knew I had to. Then a friend of mine--who is a talented natural horsemanship devotee--told me to make the backing work FOR me, not against me. If my filly wanted to back, fine, she can back, but under MY direction. I was not "letting her get away with backing" by allowing her to back b/c SHE was not the one who was directing the backing. When she said, "I don't wanna!" and began backing, I was to turn her around and back her the way I wanted to go, i.e. away from the barn in the case of her not wanting to leave her buddies at home. I'd back her about 50', stop her, turn her around and offer her the chance to continue away from the barn, this time walking forward. If she started backing again, I'd swing her around and back her the way I wanted to go.

    If she balked without trying to back as a protest, I'd just ask her for a forward step with a nudge from my leg and as soon as she took even one step I'd praise her and give her a pat. We didn't go away from the barn very fast, step by step, but we DID leave the barn and soon she was much more comfortable with leaving her buddies.

    These methods act to correct the behavior right as it happens, so that she could see the exact relationship between what she did and what I corrected her for. She knew, "If I try to back b/c I don't want to go forward, Megan is going to ask me to keep backing, and that's no fun when the backing isn't my idea." In addition, when you back the horse then stop him, you can show him how far he had gone and he can see nothing troublesome occurred.
    Megan

    "No matter how badly behaved you are, your horse always gives you a second chance."
    Anonymous

    /˚)__≈
    _((_))_

  • 11-07-2009 6:25 PM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    Thank you SO much!  Not only does that make sense to me, it's feasible, as I'm unable to ride around the barn.  I'll try that next time...no more walking to the head of the trail.
  • 11-07-2009 7:02 PM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

     There are excellent articles on equisearch about both barn sourness and teaching your horse to spook in place.  I used the barn sour article (a John Lyons exercise of putting your horse's mind and body to WORK when he gets sour) and it really worked perfectly.  It's not so much about making being at the barn unpleasant, it's rather that if they balk, then they will get put to work and if they behave, then they get to go along nicely.



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    Wander With Wild Things
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 11-07-2009 7:59 PM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

     I found the John Lyons barn sourness article.  Sadly, it's of no use to me.  Our closest round pen/ring isn't close.  He plants long before we get there...and I don't have the space to safely do any of the exercises that he mentions.  
    The "spooking in place" article was useful, but I don't know if it will work.  Toby doesn't get bothered by any of that stuff: lunge whip, bags blowing about, etc.  He spooks only at a) things he's seen a million times before, or b) a sudden, large rustle in the bushes.  
  • 11-08-2009 11:07 AM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

    Horses are prey animals and they are very attuned to their surroundings. For good reason: their lives depend on that. They're going to spook at the smallest thing, IF that thing is new to them or even if it's something they've seen a hundred times but it's in a different position or is being approached from a different direction. You'll never completely cure a horse of those spooks: they're hard-wired to be vigilant.

    But as you get your horse more used to the trail you'll find the spooks occur less frequently. Part of that is him having more confidence, but a huge part of it depends on how much he trusts you. The better your connection with your horse, the more he will trust you and seek you as his safety net. If he sees you as his protector, and notices that you're not scared of things, he will be more courageous and less spooky. If you expect him to spook, he IS going to spook. If you're cool, he'll take courage from you. I would advise reading John Lyons articles, not about barn sourness, but on creating of better connection with your horse. Although I do not follow John Lyons--I like Harry Whitney's philosophy--I'm sure he talks about "becoming a leader" for your horse. Other natural horsemanship trainers talk about that, as well, maybe even someone local you can take lessons from. Your connection with your horse is the biggest factor in how your horse deals with anything and everything, and it's worth strengthening every day.

    As I became more of a leader to my Lusitano filly--I like Frederic Pignon's word for that: decider--she spooked less. Now, she is a very brave horse by nature--Lusitanos were bred for the bullring, and have to be able to stand up to an enraged bull--but she still spooked at odd things on occasion. One day she wouldn't cross a line chalked across the road by a utility crew, and I had to back her across the line to get her over it. She was fine with it once she was across, and crossing it on the way back home. Go figure. :)
    Megan

    "No matter how badly behaved you are, your horse always gives you a second chance."
    Anonymous

    /˚)__≈
    _((_))_

  • 11-08-2009 7:33 PM In reply to

    Re: More help needed: spooking & barn sourness

     Annie, you don't need a round pen for the barn sour exercises.  All you need is a plan.  When he misbehaves, you just put him to work, turns, transitions, exercises.  If he won't go forward, you can do exercises backwards!



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    Wander With Wild Things
    We Are Flying Solo

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