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Re: slow twist snaffle

baldmountainthunder — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:04:46 GMT

I liked your response. I'd forgotten about figure 8 nosebands, or dropped nosebands.....

One needs to know their horse, and also their own abilities. If one does not have soft or giving hands, then they may find themselves creating a horse with a very tough mouth that will eventually "run through" whatever is used.

When I got my horse they were using a rubber snaffle used for training foals, and that for a time they'd used a hackamore on him. The young girl only trail rode him, and I believe allowed him to do as he wished. I needed to retrain him to stand when I mounted him.

He is a great horse, with good training. Somewhere in his life however, he learned to bolt and buck. He came to me with an old scar across his back legs, running diagonally on the inside of his hock area. He has a lose stifle, so I do my best to keep him collected, and as he ages I know he has arthritis started.

Normally my voice is all that is need to bring him to a walk, except when he feels good and the footing is soft, or he's in a large group. Then I need just a little bit more. My theory as others have suggested martingales, etc, is that "less is more". The slow twist (least severe one they make) seems to do the trick. The few times he has a momentary lapse of memory and forgets I'm their, my voice and a bit stronger hand seems to remind him, without hurting him.

Thank you for the response, and I will keep the figure 8 noseband in mind.

Re: slow twist snaffle

FocusCalmPatience — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:41:15 GMT

Some research has recently come to light that rotating bits every 6 weeks will actually substantially reduce the number of ulcers horses develop in their mouths. This has been a great oppurtunity for us to experiment with lots of different bits! I have rotated so far with the arabian I'm riding, a regular thick KK, a copper mild kimberwicke (no chain), and a thin copper KK. Using a slightly stronger, or maybe just different bit from time to time will get the horse paying attention, and you dont have to be as concerned with using a "stronger" bit if you are rotating because it is just for a short period. Its also fun to see how they react and work differently. I encourage everyone with the resources to try changing it up from time to time, its very informative, and keeps their mouths in better condition! So, if you're having trouble with your horse, maybe spend a couple weeks in the slow twist, followed by maybe a KK, then maybe a D ring, and just see what works best. (Always under the supervision/advice of your trainer, ofcourse)

Re: slow twist snaffle

coyotecreek — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:04:10 GMT

When I evented, I used a slow twist eggbutt and a figure 8 noseband for cross country. my horse got very bold and this is what worked for him. I think the bottomline is, ANY peice of equipment or bit can be misused..it comes down to knowing the horse and what he needs.

If all horses went in smooth eggbutts, we wouldnt have all the different bits we have out there. a good horseman knows the mechanics behind certain bits, why they are designed that way, and what they accomplish...and if a horse needs that.

A friend of mine, who is a stellar horseman and trainer, when asked about "severe" bits said basicaly, those against certain bits or peices of equipment must be a heck of alot better and more consistent riders then him..he uses those bits and equipment to help make his wishes clearer to his horses...:)

Re: slow twist snaffle

baldmountainthunder — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:50:54 GMT

Interesting to see how riders/trainers/etc. are so passionate about this. I was told that the slow twist is just one step up from a regular snaffle, and after purchasing it, and feeling it, and using it I don't believe it is the harsh bit that others are referring to. I don't profess to be an expert on bits or even riding, I just know that it was that little added extra that would assist me as a rider to "remind" my mount that I was still there and calling the shots. I've always had soft hands, and been a quiet rider. I'm over 40 and possess no great dreams of becoming the rider I'd once thought I could. My equine partner is no spring chicken at the age of 27 and is mostly very well behaved and not is not easily spooked.

I always remember that he is a horse, and that I am a human. Regardless of how much we know about the horse and the mechanics of the horse, each one is different like a human. For some human children, a simple "No" is all that is needed to remind the child not to run into the road. For other children, a parent needs to raise their voice. I feel that the slow twist is simply a way to speak up when your horse isn't listening to your otherwise quiet and light hands.

Re: slow twist snaffle

baldmountainthunder — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:26:25 GMT

I tried the slow twist after I discovered that my Appendix QH sometimes liked to take the ride into "his own hands". He is not a strong horse, nor is he crazy in the sense of the word. Almost all of the time, he will come to a walk, or even a halt with just word or my seat. But I discovered that sometime he gets full of himself and likes to take advantage of the wide open grassy spaces, or if a jumping course is incredibly fun for him, he'll start putting on the steam and getting "strong". With the snaffle, I felt I was thrown into the back seat to watch. With the slow twist snaffle, I am now able to regain control, and he can still be allowed to use his energy safely. For the times he is on his best behavior, I find that just squeezing the reins gives him the slow, or whoa signal. It also helped me to get his weight of his frontend and keep him from leaning as much when working in the ring.

Try it out. If it doesn't work for you, then...try something else.

Re: slow twist snaffle

sportassage — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:44:54 GMT

I ride hunter and have no problem showing in this bit.

Re: slow twist snaffle

buckskin_ridah — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:44:54 GMT

Just wondering what event you ride Sportassage. Know your class/associations rules on what bits are acceptable as not all classes will let you use a twisted wire snaffle. Also, and this is just something I am putting out there, have you ever thought of using either a leverage bit or a hackamore? These put pressure in different spots and may give more control, mainly it depends on your horse and your riding ability.

Re: slow twist snaffle

sportassage — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:08:52 GMT

It depends on the horse. My mare was very strong when I got her and would run through a plain snaffle. Got the slow twist, and she got a little better but was still able to drag me around. I ride her now in a twisted wire. And, yes you can ride in this bit more than once a week. She likes it and has no problem with it. I show with this bit and school at home with it. All depends on the horse and what works for them.

I do agree that you should never use a harsh bit on a greenie or with an inexperienced rider. You do need to have educated hands and should work with a trainer who can show you how to ride with these kinds of bits.

Re: slow twist snaffle

buckskin_ridah — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:36:04 GMT

I lot of trainers (most often western pleasure and reiners) will use a twisted snaffle or a slow twist snaffle before a show to get the horse respecting and paying attention to the bit, when they get into a class they will have a smooth snaffle, but a little more tunedup and respectful horse. Never use it as a daily bit, any twisted wire bit is to be used strictly when needed. Contest horses will use them in competition when you have a hot horse that needs to remember to pay attention, but mostly for conditioning-lesson-training work on occasion. These bits are not for inexperienced horses or riders, are anyone who does not have good hands and proper training as it can be a very severe bit.

Re: slow twist snaffle

Cindi — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:07:47 GMT

As lots have said before, different bits for different situations, always striving for the mildest bit possible.

Eons ago I rescued an 18 year old starvation case. The mare was a nicely bred T-bred who had come off the track and went right to the broodmare biz. I don't think she'd ever been "reprogrammed" to be a riding horse. Years later, she was in a bad situation and I got her. Spent a year building her back up and then lots of light work on the lunge line and bitting rig. She was extremely mannerly as far as anything you wanted to do with her on the ground, in the trailer, etc. but once in the saddle? This old mare became a charging, pig-rootin' fool! We had started her back in a nice fat eggbutt snaffle. After the first month of this with her locking completely on and tearing around like a maniac, totally out of control my trainer and I tried a gag snaffle. That helped get her attention back. Then on to a full cheek copper corkscrew. After about 6 months in each new bit, she was back in that original eggbutt and as nice as could be, to the point that we could actually do some little schooling shows and place!

There are no real quick fixes and what works for some may not work for another. Just use some good judgement, light hands and experiment!

Re: slow twist snaffle

Frizzle — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:39:13 GMT

Yes an elevator uses leverage, but that doesn't necessarily equal pain. Of course, if abused/in the wrong hands, an elevator (as well as many other bits) can be too severe, but this is the exception, not the rule. (For example, I have seen someone jumping a horse in a 3-ring with draw reins, which were cranked down...ridiculous). Have you seen Margie versus the horses she rides? Those are huge, hot, powerful jumpers, and Margie is a tiny little mighty mouse. Are you saying that you think she is using a too harsh/severe bit? Because I certainly do not agree with that. Like you said, I don't want to get in a war about this, but I don't think Margie Engle's reputation deserves to be tarnished.

Re: slow twist snaffle

Solaris — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:36:32 GMT

Actually, no, an elevator does not use pain to deliver a turn. In fact, it does not improve turning ability whatsoever. I actually find that it is LESS useful to use for direct reining turns because of the large cheek piece. But when I am jumping a course -- and even more so for Margie Engle, who is aeons ahead of me in riding skill -- most of the turning is done with the legs, weight, and eye. The elevator uses leverage -- which no, does NOT equal pain because believe me, if it was pain, my horse would NOT tolerate it and my butt would be on the ground -- to help rebalance a horse off his forehand with a lifting half halt. I do all my schooling in a snaffle as well -- everything from dressage to XC jumping. But at comps, you bet I put that elevator in when jumping so when my horse is on his competition high, I can use a light touch and get him back in balance for the next jump WITHOUT ripping his face off or causing pain when he is distracted or off balance at high speeds.

Re: slow twist snaffle

48northfarm — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:54:18 GMT

Debbie McDonald used a double bridle on Brentina b/c the rules of Grand Prix dressage require it. I suspect that Debbie would have ridden Brentina in a snaffle if she could have, since that's what she schooled the mare in. Margie Engle uses an elevator to get a quick turn out of her horse using leverage--pain--while on a tight course in competition. Big difference.

Re: slow twist snaffle

Solaris — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:43:05 GMT

I agree, Frizz -- we are not "enslaving" horses by using a different bit on them. And yes, it IS all about educated hands. A friend's horse for example: he is a Belgian X and he is FREAKING STRONG! Now you can spend all the time you want putting a snaffle on this horse and he will be quite happy to rip the reins out of your hands, or duck behind it and spin in circles no matter how much groundwork you want to do. But put a Kimberwicke on him and you can ride him soft and happy all day long without even using that curb chain a single time. But put that snaffle back in and right away he knows it and will take 110% advantage of it. You can tell me that's not logical, and I would agree, but we've tried it and a bunch of other things with him and it's just what he likes.

Some people think thin snaffles are severe and every horse should be in a nice fat snaffle. Well, my horse has a low palate and if you put a fat snaffle in, he is very uncomfortable. So we go for the thinner mouth piece and voila, happy horse. They are individuals and training methods and tools should reflect that.

Just like you can't make every person in the world wear the same shaped shoes, you can put every horse in the world in the same bit.

Re: slow twist snaffle

Frizzle — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:57:47 GMT

I certainly don't believe that the horse should be a slave to its rider, and I agree that the "strongest" bits should only be used by certain individuals, in the correct manner. And of course I believe that you should explore all other avenues, seek the advice of a trainer, etc. I was simply stating that not every horse can be ridden effectively in a plain, smooth snaffle, especially not in every situation. Maybe you have different bits for different scenarios - like Margie Engle, for example, who prefers to always school her horse in some type of snaffle and reserves her stronger bits (like 3-ring elevators) for competition.