Okay...here's the scoop.  I have a Dressage horse that is having a very very hard time keeping his head where it needs to be in Canter.  I have tried pretty much everything to help him understand what he needs to do, but it's just not working.  I am personally not a fan of too many training aids, but I'm running out of ideas.  I have done lots of side rein work on the longe line and I tried him in a neck stretcher, but it's just not helping.  What do you think about draw reins or martingales?  What have you used and how did your horse do?  As I said, I'm not a fan of training aids, but I think he may just be a horse who needs one.

Thanks in advance for you help! 

I'm not a dressage rider by any means (I'd certaintly love to try it one day when I get the chance), but my bet is that your problem is NOT his head, but rather his rear-end and back. A horse simply cannot maintain a proper body "frame", including head position, unless they are correctly working off their rear end and up through the bridle. This goes for any horse in any discipline. When a horse is really doing this you can put his head anywhere you want it by adjusting your reins almost all of the time. You can throw all the gadgets you want on a horse and mechanically "set" his head and he may "look" like a dressage horse to someone without a well trained eye, but he won't be moving correctly and people who know will be able to see that.

My point is, make SURE that your problem is not elsewhere before going to "gadgets" to fix what you percieve as a headset problem. It's likely a symptom and not the real issue. I understand the point of sidereins, and though I have not personally used them, I think they can be a good tool in showing a horse what you want and helping him develop the correct muscles. Draw reins and martingales...nope not in most all situations, not in my opinion.

Are you working with a trainer at all?

I find that 95% of the time (really I think it's more often) when someone posts about anything reguarding "headset" type issues on a forum and does NOT put anything in the post about the larger picture of collection,balance,etc that they do not relate the two and there IS a problem in the overall movement of the horse that is causing the head placement issues. If you don't fall into that 95%+ then forgive me and move on; I can only work with what I am given about your issue (which was a few sentence post...).

To answer your question, again. IMO, "gadgets" designed to "fix" a "headset" are bandaids that don't really fix the problem. I also feel that almost all head positioning issues are really symptoms of other issues, generally collection, balance, and working from the rear forward problems.

I love reading your posts AllAround...always well thought out and informative. 

The only "gadget" I've ever used is to lunge in vienna reins.  They allow the horse to move their head from side to side and encourage the horse to stretch it's neck out and down and also to lift and stretch the back.  I've only used it a couple of times briefly and it didn't take long for him to learn that it was more comfortable and easier to go around this way.  I've seen a significant difference in his canter since.

You were asking for opinions and that's what AllAround provided.  When asking an opinion, the gracious thing to do is take the advice and don't get snarky and defensive. 

I think aids like draw reins and martingales can be very appropriate for certain situtations.  I often ride Solo in a running martingale just to keep him from throwing his head up so high that I lose our connection.  He has plenty of freedom to move and by no means does it force him into a frame.  I also like draw reins to help show a horse what I am asking for.  I will use them a few times or only occasionally though, not as a consistent riding aid.  Like any tool, including bits and spurs, I find these things useful in a trained set of hands and applied to an appropriate situtation.  If I were in your shoes, I would certainly give them a try and I wouldn't be close-minded at the expense of my training.  From your description, you sound like you can use them judiciously and if you don't like them, then chuck them and try something else.   I know many classically minded folks will say all training aids are bad, but well, we all know you can ask 5 people how to train a horse and get 6 answers!!!!

I've never used draw reins, although I have seen them in use (and in the 'proper' way). I think I'd get too confused using them! Lol!

 Now and again I'll lunge Bennett with side-reins and do a lot of trot-to-canter transitions. This keeps her moving off her rear and sorta lets her find her correct "spot" without me on top messing with her. I find she's much better the next time I'm in the saddle, as long as I stay consistent!

 I have used a germain martingale on a couple of short but intense rides, and really liked it. It kept my hands steady but really re-inforced what I was trying to teach her. Again, it let her find her own correct, comfortable position.

I haven't used them lately since the modified reins went back to the sister-in-law and I need to get a spare set of reins to modify and have for myself.

I don't believe in gadgets to replace proper training, but do think that they do searve a purpose when used correctly. As long as the "training aid" doesn't become a "training crutch", then you're good to go.

I agree with QH... if your horses head is 'up' in the canter, then he is telling you that something else is going on. He isn't through in the back, he isn't relaxed, he isn't rhythmical, he isn't really using his hind end correctly. If he was using his hind end correctly, and all of these things were true, then his head wouldn't be up. The head is a barometer of the back, and getting the head down doesn't DO anything mechanically for the horse. Can you fool some judges? Certainly. Is it correct training? Not in my opinion, as it addresses the front end of the horse.

 You mentioned you got an 8 for gaits, did you get an 8 for submission? If so, then maybe your 'head' position isn't as bad as you think it is....What scores did you get for your canter work? You said that you worked with some skilled trainers, what did they have to say?

 Personally I agree with colonel Podjhasky's opinion on draw reins and the like... anyone who is skilled enough to use them doesn't need them.
 

Firstly, AllAroundQH...I'm sorry! I was not having the best of days and after reading my response to your post over just now, wow...it's a little harsh. I apologize...it's not like me to talk to someone like that. 

Secondly, thanks everyone else for your input!  I really appreciate it!

It's too easy to misread other's tone over the internet ;) I hope your day gets better, and good luck with your horse :)

What exactly is he doing with his head that you want to correct?

Just my 2 cents:  maybe your horse needs some chiro adjustment.  He may be having some pain issues that are preventing a proper "headset". 

Here is my twopennies worth. Personally, I would avoid draw reins unless your trainer a) advises them and b) shows you how to use them. Because they very quickly create a nice head position, it is very very easy to find yourself misusing them even if you know what you are doing as you tend to lose focus on the rest of the horse and start to think “head down = good carriage”. They can, if misused, ruin a good horse and cause any number of back and neck problems.

Martingales, on the other hand, I have few problems with provided they are fitted correctly. Some horses use ‘lifting the head’ to evade work. My horse, for example, will go very nicely until she gets bored at which point she will lift her head, hollow and run. Note that lifting her head is the first thing she does to evade. If I make this less comfortable for her by using a correctly fitted running martingale, I find she keeps her good shape and rhythmic even pace better.

Unlike draw reins, a running martingale will not tie a horse’s head down; merely put a secondary source of pressure on the bit, via the rein, as the horse lifts its head.  Whereas with draw reins, you frequently find that the horse reverts to its original head carriage once they are removed, with a martingale and its more indirect action, the horse is more likely to seek a better posture for itself and thus develop the correct muscles. Obviously a standing martingale is more restrictive and, although has its place, is best avoided unless you have a serial star-gazer and an experienced instructor.

Hope this is helpful, good luck!

I'm not a fan of gadgets, they are at most a crutch.  

First off, go back to basics, forget about "where his head should be" and work forward from his haunches making sure he is working through, over his back and forward to your leg to the bit.   Simplify, simplify simplify by getting his mind engaged - instead of attempting to canter a complete circle, merely ask for the transition into, canter a stride or two and transition back into good working trot - change directions, always remembering towork inside leg to outside hand - and keep his mind from anticipating and getting chargy (which is probably what is happening, getting thrust into the canter, he's bracing and getting his head every where but relaxed.    He hasto relax into the work, and getting that good steady soft feel before ever asking for canter will help a lot.   There are tons of exercises to get him using himself more fully before engaging into canter - riding shoulder fore, into shoulder in, leg yield to outside, back into shoulder in, shoulder fore, then asking for canter is one help that keeps his mind, allows the hip to come under and frees the shoulder to get the asked for lead, in a more relaxed manner - keeping a stable soft seat, using inside seat bone riding inside leg into your outside rein (outside is outside of bend - and that's something to remember when asking for counter bend and such)- but again it all depends on your level of experience, and your horse's... but consider this - putting gadgets on a horse who has no idea of the question being asked is like asking a kindergartner to write a dissertation on advanced calculus!   Keep it simplel, keep it consistent and you will see results - it takes TIME - and time is the best aid we have in training our horses.   Remember, part of the fun IS the journey to get there.

I didn't read all the responses but I do have a question when you say head up but his gaits are good it leads me to a question... his back cant be hollow if his gaits are good?  So how can his head be up?  Is it possible that either A you've lost the quality and "frame" (although I hate that word) OR his natural head set while in "frame" is higher?  Is he on the vertical?  Behind? or infront?  Have you watched him with a diff rider to get a better view?  I'm not questioning your horse experiance but how could he be round thru the back and then head and neck up in the air?  Not possible?  Unless his head/ neck are naturally high which IMO it would be then acceptable for him to carry himself like that.

If I'm just missing somthing I'm sorry.