Hey, all you barefoot hoof / hoof care experts out there...I have a burning question for you...

Unfortunately I don't have the pictures right now to show this to you, so I will have to explain it. Please feel free to post questions if you don't understand.

My 12 year old mare has been barefoot her whole life. Within the past couple years I have picked up one of Jaime Jackson's books and have been trimming her feet using his methods ever since. Her feet have made an amazing transformation, but I have a recurring problem. Twice a year (early spring and early fall) she gets these "rings" of sorts, that grow out and down her front hooves. As they grow down they cause the toes to become slightly concave and o become too long. Eventually the hoof starts growing at a normal angle again, but once I trim off what's left of the previous "rings," another set starts coming down the coronet. Just this week I noticed they're coming back again. The biggest problem is with her front hooves, but she also get these in a more moderate form on her hind hooves.

I have been trying many things to get these rings to stop forming on her hooves, including re-measuring and changing her schedule every few months. This summer I put her on a hoof supplement, and I can see where the new hoof grew after I started that. In the summer I also rub her feet with hoof cream when it is especially dry to keep them from chipping and cracking.

Sadie has never been lame and shows no pain from this, I have never seen signs of the hoof wall separating anywhere on any of her feet. Therefore, I don't think she has laminitis or founder. She is kept on pasture with all the grass and hay she can eat, with a trace salt block to supplement when she needs it and I keep a strict worming schedule. The only time she has a problem on gravel is when we're riding, so her feet aren't very tender. Her body condition is moderately fleshy with fat along her ribs and a little along her back, not enough to make a ridge.

So if anybody can give me some more info or suggestions, I would be happy to discuss them with you. You're more than welcome to send me a private message. I get the feeling this is going to take some time to figure out. I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks!

What you're seeing is changes in her hoof wall from the spring/early fall grass.  During these times of the year, the sugars in the grass are much higher because of all the new growth.  If she's not lame or laminitic, I wouldn't worry about it.  My horse also gets the same rings.  Many people don't realize how similar the grass is in the 2 seasons and that's why you hear of horses foundering this time of the year also. 

You can word and sugar coat it any way you like but what is happening is that the horse is foundering. Luckily for her you are trimming correctly to keep her from developing a separation.

The rings are called stress rings and they appear when the horses feed changes enough to make an impact on the hoof.  Usually that means too much sugar and the times of the year you mention would coorespond to the rise in sugar in the grasses.   Is your horse foundering? Depends on what that means..  It most likely is pointing to a slight laminitis attack, but not enough for you to see it other than in these rings.

My appy used to get them all the time. The reason was unknown to me at the time. I have since learned much more about horses and sugar. Few horses need any added sugar(molasses) for instance. Easy keepers need as much sugar curtailed from their diets as possible or they may well founder one day.

If you know the basic time of the year this happens I would suggest you limit the grazing time and feed hay more. See if that helps prevent it from happening.  Oh and keep up the good trims, they will help a lot as well. 

I would like to add to what has already been posted. (Yes, it's likely sugar in the grass) and the fact that she is tender on the rocks when ridden tells me her feet aren't really tough, either. That can be a manifestation of that sugar as well. Your post implies that she is frequently on gravel in the pasture??? Or you lead her across it at some point? If she is exposed to gravel frequently and still tender when you ride on it, I would want to know why.

And that concavity caused by the rings, sounds like lamitis and some separation could be going on. Make sure you rasp that flare out as it grows down to minimize the leverage effect, like it sounds like you are doing already.

Making sure to watch the sugars seasonally should help, if not eliminate the problem, as AppyT mentioned.

If you would like to PM me, feel free.

I knew there was something I was missing!

Sadie has always been an easy keeper. I swear she gains weight on air. I guess I always assumed she is a "normal" horse...Not to say she isn't :) I always put her out on grass as soon as it started coming up. In the past there never seemed to be a problem, but now that she's older, maybe it's different.

I do rasp off the flare as much as I can as it grows out. Boosiler, you're right that her feet aren't tough. I may have given you the impression she has gravel in her pasture but she does not. Most of the riding we do is on grasses or dirt paths. The only time she crosses gravel is when we're riding across the road to a field or when I am bringing her up to the barn. It isn't more than a couple minutes a day. And I believe the tender feet and the rings on her hooves are unrelated. The sensitivity happens consistently, not only when she has the rings growing out. I think she just needs to spend more time on the gravel to toughen them up. I hope that cleared things up for you.

But it brings up another question now. If I have to keep her off the grass when the sugar is high, when should I do that, and when can she go back out on grass with no problems? Unfortunately, giving her hay this time of the year isn't an option with our current situation. I hope by next spring she'll be at a new home, so she's going to be a miserable horsie next spring not having all the yummy new grass :)

Thanks everyone for your input!

Is the horse grained at all?  This could be a component of both situations.  If she's an easy keeper, you might want to consider switching her feed to either a good low carb feed or perhaps even a hay balancer.  Never assume that what goes into the horse is unrelated to persistent hoof issues.  Sometimes it can even be a lack of certain minerals or amino acids, or a sensitivity to certain things.

What do her frogs look like?  I'd love to see actual pictures of the hooves.  If the back of the hoof is not well developed, you're going to have persistent issues.  Does she land toe first or heel first?  Grazing muzzles (best friends offers a great one) are an option. 

There is an excellent website that delivers a tremendous amount of information about hays and grasses www.safergrass.org   Generally speaking, in the fall, you have to be concerned when the temperatures in the evening get cool.  The fructans manufactured in the grasses during the sunny days aren't used at night when it's too cool for the grasses to metabolize like they do in the summer.  So the grass just keeps storing up the sugar, and it can be a founder factory.

All great advice and it has been interesting and very informational for me as well.

"Sadie has always been an easy keeper. I swear she gains weight on air."

Based on that and everything else you have said, Sadie is old enough to already be headed down the Cushings or pre-Cushings path.

I have a 20 yo that was diagnosed with EMS (Equine Metabolic Syndrome) last Spring.  He is essentially a Type II diabetic (as are I-R, Insulin Resistant, horses).  He's the horse in my avatar but that picture was taken when he was 16 and still healthy.

He has been off grain since last May.  I have a 12 yo that is headed down the pre-cushings path as well and is also an air fern like your Sadie. 

Neither of these horses gets any grain.  The EMS horse gets a pelleted vitamin/mineral supplement plus Equi-Jewel's pelleted rice bran.  He lost nearly 100 pounds in about six weeks last Fall, so has gone from being an air fern to not being able to hold his weight.  The Equi-Jewel is 20% fat and he is maintaining his current weight nicely.

My 12 yo that is overweight only gets Purina's "Born to Win" pelleted vitamin/mineral supplement.  One measuring cup 2X/day and that is IT.

It's a good thing I have always brought my horses in at night because the EMS horse is not supposed to be munching 24/7.  Once his hay is gone at night, he's done picking until turnout the next morning.  And I monitor his hay.  NO alfalfa, just a high quality grass mix hay.

I hope this helps and I apologize for getting off the hooves, but for my HO, I believe the hooves might be a very subtle indication that Sadie is pre-cushings.

I missed a few early warnings in my horse because I knew zip about Cushings and pre-cushings, so I just want to pass the information along in the hopes of helping someone else's horse

I am converting over to barefoot and had my mare and foal trimmed yesterday by a barefoot trimmer who studied with Pete Ramey.  What he told me was to take her off carbohydrates and just feed a high quality hay.   Fresh pasture can lead to founder if eaten in large amounts by some horses.  My mare is going off her mare supplement the end of the month when we wean the baby and the foal will finish what I bought of Nutrena Youth and then go on a high quality timothy grass hay.  It sounds confusing about sugars and carbs but in order to maintain good healthy hooves and to allow the coffin bone to sit correctly within the hoof, the food and trims will work together to provide your horse with healthy hooves.  My farrier said when the bone inside doesn't sit right, it's like walking on tip toes and they are tender. Check with your farrier about supplements.  Sometimes it's too much along with the sugars from grass and hays they are eating. 

You don't need to completely take her off the pasture.  Pasture is good for them, not to mention the exercise they get being turned out.  Is she over weight?  Maybe just limit how much she gets by putting a grazing muzzle on her.

Everyone is giving great info, but here's my two cents...

Keeping a horse barefoot is not just about trimming the horse's hooves a certain way and not using shoes....it is also about the terrain you keep the horse on...they both work together to produce a naturally strong hoof.  If Sadie is only kept on dirt and grass, that could be the reason that her feet are not tough as they should be.  I keep my horses in an arena with small rocks and pebbles and thier hooves are rock hard and tough as nails. Pete Ramey is great, as is his mentor, Jamie Jackson....but read everything they have to say about keeping a horse's hooves natural...terrain plays a big part in it. 

What does the chinese symbol in your picture mean?

I've been a "self study" on barefoot trimming for years. Even though Sadie has never worn shoes, it wasn't until a couple years ago I learned to trim "barefoot." It really spurred from my Dad "sticking out his chest like a gorilla" and saying "I'm going to do it!" that got me to learn do it myself the right way. (I didn't want him touching my horse) That's when I came across one of Jaime Jackson's books at the library and read it cover to cover. I also have a CD of Pete Ramey (I think that's him) that is a wonderful tool.

I knew from the beginning that terrain had just as much to do with being barefoot as anything we can do to rasp the shape of their hooves. Last fall she didn't have so many problems with the "rings" growing out but she still had some and it has nearly grown out already. She has also lost a lot of body fat from being in the cold and eating hay "salads" all day :) Sure wish I could lose weight like that! I think the weather had a lot to do with the "rings" not being so severe this fall. It got cold and snowed early last fall so she was on hay early.

Since I started the post back in October I have been trimming all four hooves every three weeks to keep them at the ideal shape more often. Over the winter her hooves have improved. I stopped trimming the frogs down and trim only the edges and flaps off to encourage them to grow thicker and wider. Her back frogs are beautiful (if it's possible to say so) and her front frogs are starting to improve.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. Especially if you can tell me how to encourage the front frogs to fill out! Please read the WHOLE post and make sure you understand me first. It's not nice to jump to conclusions. Thanks!

It's actually Japanese, and it's the name of my horse, Arashi Rei.  Loosely translated to Storm Spirit, and that's his picture in the avatar. 

Hey Sadiesgal, my horse sort of has a similar issue, and it's NOT foundering. She's one of the healthiest horses in the world *knock on wood*, and is exercised regularly. Anyway, my barn is supposed to be switching to Manna Pro Safeperformance. It has all the necessities, high in fat and protein, but it contains no sugar or starches, which can trigger different problems in different horses. Overall, it sounds like a pretty good choice in food, and could help be a substitute for some of the grass shes getting...? It is possible to be allergic to sugar, although strange. I used to be incredibely allergic to sugar, which caused terrible side effects, so thats the reason I could believe it was possible with my horse. Otherwise, I would have thought the person was a little crazy who suggested it as well, lol.

 ...just a suggestion...